for Bible believers who cannot love an endless-hell god

[rodgertutt]

The findings of Greek scholar Louis Abbott and the other Greek scholars quoted in chapter three and twelve of his online book IMHO renders all other arguments irrelevant.

These findings effectively close the case on the arguments that eternal tormentors try so hard to uphold. But of course one has to actually read them to see what I mean.

Just Google up AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS and enjoy, or click on
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html

The following chapter links in blue probably may be activated on this post.
• About the Author
• Dedication
• Forward
• Chapter1 - Definitions of Aion, Aionios
• Chapter2 - Usages of Aion
• Chapter3 - Opinion of the Scholars
• Chapter4 - Apparent Contradictions
• Chapter5 - "Forever and Ever" - A Poor Translation
• Chapter6 - What Saith The Translations?
• Chapter7 - Eonian Means What? - A Search For Truth
• Chapter8 - Greek Tools
• Chapter9 - Examples in Greek Literature
• Chapter10 - Bibles Without "Everlasting Punishment"
• Chapter11 - Verses "Proving" Punishment Will be Everlasting
• Chapter12 - Scholars Acknowledge Restitution of All
• Chapter13 - Punishment? Yes - Everlasting? No
• Chapter14 - A Long, But Not Eternal Visit To "Hell"
• Chapter15 - The "Chosen," Not "I have chosen"
• Chapter16 - Clearing Things Up
• Chapter17 - The Complete Revelation
• Appendix 1 - Commentary of Previous Presentation
• Appendix 2 - Do You Believe ALL in the Bible?
• Appendix 3 - Reconciliation Scriptures
• Appendix 4 - What Pleases the Father?
• Appendix 5 - What if we are Wrong?
• Christian Biblical Universalism versus Annihilation http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html
• Bible Threatenings Explained http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html
• Universal Salvation University http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

[spirit1st]

Bible already tells us No one has All truth! By following these men ? You chose to follow others instead of our LORD JESUS CHRIST!

Many pick people who write Books to follow!
God Knew this and gave us HIS holy ghost to teach and guide us!

Many are called to be HIS . FEW are chosen !

I see many change the Greek meaning to match there desires!

You know if HE did not have mercyon those kids? How can you expect HIm to have mercy on these who kill and steal and lie and decieve others?
_________________
1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[spirit1st]

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
_________________
1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[rodgertutt]

THE FOLLOWING HAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE TRUE REGARDING THE DEBATE ABOUT ETERNAL TORMENT

The argument about “eternal hell” nearly always ends with the words, “My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars,” and the result is nearly always a stalemate.

If you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.

But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that that is exactly what God is like.

ON THE BASIS OF HAVING STUDIED THE EVIDENCE AVAILABLE TO YOU CHOOSE ONE
Choose to believe that the Bible teaches that God will sustain people alive in an inescapable state of eternal suffering.
Or
Choose to believe that God will annihilate (cause them to cease to exist) anyone who does not become a Christian before they die.
Or
Choose to believe what the following expositors reveal about what the Bible teaches.
Copy and paste into Google
THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html
Or
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html
http://www.sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm
Or
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm
Or
ETERNAL DEATH ANNIHILATION?
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html
What About Annihilation of the Wicked?
http://www.christian-universalism.com/faq/annihilation.html

I myself, along with many others with whom I am acquainted, simply cannot love a god who would let anyone choose themselves into an inescapable state of eternal suffering (Arminian), or suffer forever just because they were born into the human race (Calvinist). Neither can we love a god who would snuff us out of existence just because we didn’t hear about Jesus before we died.

But we CAN love a god Who, because of His Son’s death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, will sooner or later save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved. That’s the God that the above expositors see in the Bible. And that’s the God to Whom I joyously yield my heart in complete and total abandonment.
SO FOR US THE CHOICE IS EASY
See
How I recovered from a 12 year nervous breakdown (1966-7 I’m 69
I could have avoided a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-7 had I known as a youth about the following information concerning what a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches

You can also access most of the following writings through Google by typing in the title.

BOOKS THAT SHOW THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION, THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF WHICH CAN BE READ ONLINE

If necessary, copy and paste the following urls into the address bar.

0. ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html
1. HOPE BEYOND HELL - Gerry Beauchemin (recently published)
http://hopebeyondhell.net/Revised_Edition.pdf
2. CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm
3. THE BIBLE HELL - J.W. Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheBibleHell.html
4. THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT – Thomas Thayer
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html
5. THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – Dr. Loyal Hurley
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/infinitegrace.htm
6. JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN "HELL" - J. Preston Eby
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/hell.htm
7. ONE HUNDRED SCRIPTURAL PROOFS THAT JESUS CHRIST WILL SAVE ALL MANKIND - Thomas Whittemore
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ScripturalProofs.html
8. TWENTY-FOUR SERMONS ON UNIVERSAL SALVATION – John Bovee Dods
http://www.tentmaker.org/Bovee2.htm#Top
9. THE SECOND DEATH AND THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew Jukes
http://www.tentmaker.org/restitutionindex.htm
10. ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY REASONS FOR BELIEVING IN THE FINAL SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND – Erasmus Manford
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/150reasons.html
11. THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS – J. Patching
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/RichManandLazarus-Patching.html
12. BIBLE TRANSLATIONS THAT DO NOT TEACH ETERNAL TORMENT – Gary Amirault
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html
13. AION – AIONIOS – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
14. BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html
15. THE CASE OF JUDAS, ETCETERA
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter16.html
16. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – John word not allowed
AND THE ROLE OF THE ADVERSARY – James Webb
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/TheProblemofEvil.html
17. HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE – James Coram
http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/index.html
18. THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew jukes
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/jukes2.html
19. THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – George Hawtin
http://www.godfire.net/restitutionHawtin.html
20. THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm

[spirit1st]

I don"t have any greek scholars I Have the HOLY GHOST!
i do see hell as a blessing! Because I feel everything my LORD did was out of LOVE for us! Not going to go into that! Because I know we better Give our lives to HIM NOW!

he argument about “eternal hell” nearly always ends with the words, “My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars,” and the result is nearly always a stalemate.


I CAN LOVE GOD, BEcause I Know HE has the Right to do as HE will.He is CREATOR !

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


Rom 9:27 Isaiah also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
_________________
1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[rodgertutt]

That's a cop out. You use Greek scholarship all the time to back up your opinions.
For example the scriptures in your last post.

So what About how the Bible says that those who do not believe will perish or be destroyed.

Whenever you see Jesus use a word such as “perish” or “destroy,” the original word is “apollumi.” The Greek word “apollumi” means to “to lose, or to be lost.” It is the same word Jesus used when He said

"I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel" (Matthew 15:24).

and

"Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, “Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep”" (Luke 15:4-7).

This word, “apollumi,” is used to describe a sheep which was lost and then was found and restored. And Christ uses this same exact word in the following verse:

"Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28-29). (The word translated as "Hell" in this verse is actually Gehenna, the city dump outside of Jerusalem)

The original word for “destroy” there is “apollumi” which means “to lose or be lost.” This verse is not speaking of an eternal annihilation of a soul, but of a temporary losing of the soul, just like the “lost” sheep that was later found. It is the same with all the times you see Jesus speaking of someone “perishing.” Such as in John 3:16:

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

A better translation would be “whoever believes in Him should not be lost.” We are all lost until God finds us. Those who die yet unbelieving will experience further “apollumi,” or being “lost” in the lake of fire, which is the second death. But God has promised to destroy all death once and for all and grant belief to all at the consummation of the ages.

If apollumi or apollumi meant destruction according to the traditional definition by those who believe in eternal torment or annihilation, then Jesus is lost forever:

"But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the multitudes that they should ask for Barabbas and DESTROY (apollumi) Jesus." Matt. 27:20

So then, will you hold to the "traditional" view which makes the word of God of no effect? Or will you have the courage to go against the traditional hell-fire or annihilation view which denigrates the precious victory Jesus bought through conquering death on the Cross for all mankind?

Those who are “lost” or “perished,” are like the lost sheep. The lost sheep was perished, but the shepherd sought it out and restored it. We are all like the lost sheep before God finds us. Even now we are. We are all “apollumi”, or “lost and perished” as the lost sheep was. We are separated and alienated from God. But the lost sheep did not stay that way. And neither does anyone else. The Good Shepherd does not stop looking until He has found the last one.

A careful read of the Parable of the Lost Sheep makes it very plain that for Jesus, ninety nine is NOT ENOUGH!

Ninety Nine is Not Enough!
http://www.tentmaker.org/inspirationals/ninetynine.html

[rodgertutt]

According to Scripture, what was the purpose of Jesus Christ's death and resurrection?

God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. (John 3:17)

And if anyone hears my words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world . (John 12:47)

Who comes down from heaven and gives Life to the world. (John 6:33)

The Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them. (Luke 9:56)

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself. (John 12:32)

As you have given Him authority over all flesh , that He should give eternal life to as many as you have given Him. (John 17:2)

The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand. (John 3:35)

God, Who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, Whom He has appointed heir of all things , through Whom also He made the worlds. (Hebrews 1:1,2)

His purpose is very clear: to reconcile all things back to His Father. (Col. 1:16-20)

Hmmm, save the world, draw all peoples, all things in his hands, heirs of all things…does that sound like a couple percent? Ten percent? Fifty percent? Ninety-nine percent? Based upon the above, it seems to me, that NINETY-NINE PERCENT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR JESUS!

[rodgertutt]

What saith the Scriptures!:

Christ, to whom, in whom, and for whom are all things will reconcile all things unto God (Colossians 1:15-20). He makes all things new. (Rev. 21:5) Hence His work is the restitution of all things (Acts 3:21); He is Heir of all things (Hebrews 1:2); in Him not only all nations will be blessed (Galatians 3:, but even every family of the earth will be blessed (Gen 12:32; 28:14); for the Father has given Him authority over all flesh, to give to whosoever was given to Him eternal life (John 17:2); and so all flesh shall see the salvation of God (Luke 3:6) since the Father has given all things into His hands. (John 3:35) Therefore, contrary to popular Christian opinion, we do not find billions in a Hell cursing God but we find every creature which is in heaven, and on earth, and UNDER the earth saying blessing and honour and glory and power be unto Him that sits upon the throne and unto the Lamb (Rev. 5:13). We find every knee of things in heaven and earth, and under the earth, bends to Him and every tongue confesses Him as their Lord (Philippians 2:10) and we know that no one can confess Jesus as Lord except by the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12:3). As we can see, ninety nine is not enough!

For God, Whose counsel is immutable (Hebrews 6:17), Whose attitude towards His enemies is love unchanging (Luke 6:27-35), will have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth (1 Timothy 2:4, KJV); and all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9); and has shut all up unto unbelief, in order that he may show mercy upon all (Romans 11:32); for (out) of Him, as Source, and unto (or into) Him, as End, are all things whatsoever (Romans 11:36); and He has, therefore, put all things into subjection under Christ's feet (Ephesians 1:22). As we can see, ninety nine is not enough!

And so we are assured that God will gather into one all things in Christ (Ephesians 1:10); and His grace comes upon all men unto justification of life (Romans 5:1. So Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands (John 13:3), promises by His Cross to draw (drag in the Greek) all men unto Himself (John 12:32). For having, as stated, received all things from the Father (John 3:35), all that was given come to Him shall come to Him and He will lose absolutely no one (John 6:37-39); but if any stray, He goes after that which is lost till He find it (Luke 15:4). Despite the fact that many of God's chosen and elect believe God's hand is too short to save (Isaiah 50:2) God's hand is not too short to save (Isaiah 59:1; 63:5). As we can see, ninety nine is not enough!

He comes in order that all men may believe (John 1:17); that the world, through Him, may be saved (John 3:17); His grace brings salvation to all men (Titus 2:11); for He takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29); gives His flesh for it's Life (John 6:51); and, because the gifts and calling of God are without Repentance (Romans 9:29), He gives life to the world (John 6:33); is the light of the world (John 8:12); is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world (1John 2:2); is the Savior of all men (1Timothy 4:10); destroys the works of the devil, not some of them only (1John 3:; abolishes death (2 Timothy 1:10); puts all His enemies under His feet including death (1 Cor. 15:26), is manifest to put away sin (Hebrews 9:26); and thus subduing all things unto Himself (Philippians 3:21; the context clearly shows this subjection to be conformity to Himself); does not forget the dead, but takes the gospel to Hades (1Peter 3:19); of which He holds the keys (Revelation 1:1; for He is the same (Savior) for ever (Hebrews 13:; thus even the dead are evangelized (1Peter 4:6). As we can see, ninety nine is not enough!

Thus all are made alive in Him (1Corinthians 15:22); for Christ finishes, completes His work (John 17:4; 19:30): restores all things (Acts 3:21); and there is no more curse (Revelation 22:2-3); for the creation is delivered from the bondage of corruption (Romans 8:21); and so comes the end when Christ delivers up the Kingdom to God, Who is then All in All because ALL God's enemies are defeated, the last enemy being death, NOT eternally alive being endlessly punished. (1Corinthians 15:24-2. As we can see, ninety nine is not enough!

[rodgertutt]

I notice that a bracket plus an 8 creates a happy face. So where you see a happy face it is really the number 9.

Salvation is a gift from God, it is not of works lest anyone be found boasting (Eph 2: and that gift has been given to all men despite the fact that some of God's own people don't like such generous grace. ( Rom. 5:8; Matt. 5:1-16) As we can see, ninety nine is not enough!

We can be assured of all these wonderful and glorious things because nothing is too difficult for Him (Luke 1:37) and while many things are impossible with man, nothing is impossible with God. (Matt. 19:26) Furthermore, God is love (1 John 4:, a love that love never fails (1 Cor. 13:, a love that lays down His life for not only His own, but His enemies as well and commands His disciples to do likewise.. (Matt. 5:38-4 Therefore, for God to endlessly punish His enemies would make Him a hypocrite commanding less powerful and less loving human beings to do what He is not willing to do. (Matt. 23) As we can see, ninety nine is not enough!

There is nothing that can withstand His will and no plan of His can be thwarted. (Job 4:42) The Son came to save the world and not condemn it (Luke 5:59). Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who crucified Him (all of us) (Luke 23:34) The Father has laid the iniquity of us all upon the Lamb of God (Isaiah 53:6). Jesus died for all of us. (John 1:29) To punish us now would be double jeopardy. Indeed, we can enter into His peace, believing that it is indeed finished! (John 19:30) The gift of life has been given to everyone. ( Rom. 5:1 As we can see, ninety nine is not enough! Can YOU now see, that ninety nine is not enough!

Out of the mouth of two or three witnesses, let all things be established:

“And I, If I am lifted up from the earth, will draw (helkuo, drag in the Greek), all mankind unto myself.” (John 12:32)

“Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard him and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.” (John 4:42)

“And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.” (1 John 4:14)

“This is a faithful saying and worthy of ALL acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially those who believe. These things command and teach.” (1 Tim. 4:9-11)

As we can see, from these witnesses, NINETY NINE IS NOT ENOUGH!

Jesus said He finished the work and accomplished His purpose which was also the Fathers purpose…to be the Savior of the whole world…to reconcile everyone back to His Father and our Father! Not ninety nine percent -- 100 percent.

[rodgertutt]

I notice that a bracket plus an 8 creates a happy face. So where you see a happy face it is really the number 8, not 9